What makes for good dirty talk? (~in fic)

[birdsofshore]

I had an idea for a story and it would probably involve a lot of dirty talking and general filthiness. Then I realised that this is something I really struggle with.

What, in your opinion, makes dirty talking hot in fic? Are there things that just don't work for you when you're reading it? What is your favourite kind to read? Have you got a favourite story that involves dirty talk? And, if you're a writer, can you give me any tips? Because I sort of stink at it. I do try, because I know it's great when it works, but I usually fail and have to be bailed out by a beta. I got several compliments on a filthy line in a recent fic and it was actually raitala's doing, LOL.

I even feel awkward READING dirty talk, often, because I'm not always sure how I feel about people calling each other slut and so on, and I'm not fond of porny descriptions of dripping holes. So I basically need a Dirty Talk primer. Can you help? Thank you!

Comments

[kitty_fic]

I think the problem with dirty talk is that it really comes down to personal preference. Some of the things you mentioned that you don't like are things I REALLY DO like.

I'll certainly be following this discussion though! Very interesting!

[sdkshelly.livejournal.com]

For me, I think it's not so much about the content of the dirty talk, but the reaction of the other party to the dirty talk that makes it one of my favorite things in fic. Like you, I'm not a real fan of the degrading dirty talk in general, but in certain instances it has really worked for me, but that's because it's really working for the other person. (Er, I have no idea if I'm making sense or not.)

[firethesound]

I'm eager to see what other people like about this. Dirty talk is one of those things that when it's done right can make a scene ten thousand times more awesome. But yeah, if it doesn't hit your preferences it can make things sort of awkward. And everyone has different preferences, so...

Personally, I really like it when the characters are just so into what they're doing that they can't help talking about it. Or where they want the other person so damn much they want to do everything to them, but can only do one thing at a time so they talk about the rest and what they're going to do next. Or where one of the characters is sort of in disbelief the other one is so into it and they're all, "look at how much you want this, etc etc" I personally dislike it when it's meant to be humiliating or there's a lot of name-calling or it's super-explicit. But I know other people like that. ::shrug:: ETA: Also, yes, what other people have said. How the characters react is a big part of it, too. Like if the writer really sells it how much a character likes what's being said, I'm far more likely to be into it myself.

Anyhow, yes, will be watching this because it's something I feel like I struggle with as well.

What was the filthy line?

[alisanne.livejournal.com]

So as the others said, dirty talk is very individual. It's totally about the character's reaction to it. Even if the talk is degrading, (which I don't find appealing) if the character is into it, I can follow along. Especially if their body reacts favorably and their partner notices. :)

[lauren3210.livejournal.com]

Okay, despite being a writer myself, I've not yet had the opportunity to try my hand at dirty talk in any of my fics so far, but I'll try to answer this from what I know.

Basically, there's soft-core dirty talk and hard-core dirty talk, and the difference is between the object and the subject of the dirty talk. So soft-core is basically the talker saying what they like (subject), for example "I like watching you come,", whereas hard-core is the talker saying what they want from their partner (object), for example "I want you to come on my face."

When it comes to actually reading it, for me personally the words just have to fit the mood, not only of the sex itself but the fic in general. A sweet fic where the two character are stumbling and cute suddenly ending up shouting "FILL ME UP DADDY!" is just not going to work. But a frustrating build up where everything spills over into frantic fucking is much more likely to have some dirty talk in it.

I generally prefer soft-core dirty talk to hard-core, and I actually do have a favourite story with some of that in it, if you're interested: http://archiveofourown.org/works/154453/chapters/221973 - that's chapter 3, and really hot, lol

I hope this helps?

[tamlane.livejournal.com]

What makes dirty talk hot to me is the name-calling and slut-shaming and general degradation and menace and threats of making it so one's partner can't sit down for a week without feeling the ghost of their cock, so... I don't think my advice would be much help here. XD

Instead I'll just point to snegurochka_lee's (Ninth Rehearsal for) The Main Event as a fine example of dirty talk done well.

[inell.livejournal.com]

As a reader, I enjoy it when it is used liked the above commenter mentions. In the carried away way or wanting to turn on the partner by talking about what they'd like to do to them. I have certain characters that I think dirty talk belongs more in their wheelhouse while others might not strike me as dirty talkers but a good author can make anything convincing. I don't like the humiliation aspect, personally, but I like the reaction from the person hearing it and I like the needy aspects, too. The worst thing to me is if it doesn't flow or seems forced.

As a writer, I have those characters that do talk filthy and I have others that probably wouldn't be as comfortable talking that way. It really depends on the scene and characters for me. I don't know if the dirty talk I write is good or not, but some readers seem to enjoy Blaise doing it a lot for some reason (he tends to describe things a lot and can be pretty depraved in what he says to arouse someone).

*is no help*

[pauraque]

This is a tricky question because I think dirty talk is less a distinct kink, and more a thing that can be used to express lots of different kinks. I mean, if spanking is a kink for you, then "I'm going to smack that ass so hard" could be effective dirty talk, but if it's not, then it'll leave you cold.

But speaking in general terms, what I like about it is that it gives the characters a chance to reveal their own kinks and desires. Saying out loud what gets you hot can be very intimate and revealing, and it's exciting to break taboos and say things that you would never say in everyday life.

Dirty talk can really be about anything, it doesn't have to be based on humiliation. Whatever you've decided the characters like, just have them talk about it before/while they do it, and there's your dirty talk. :) You'll never be able to please everybody, because whatever words or concepts do it for you, it's a guarantee that someone else finds them squicky or silly-sounding, so you kinda just have to dive in and write what you would want to hear.

[kitty_fic]

+1
Everything about this comment!

[akatnamedeaster.livejournal.com]

silly-sounding

Is it sad that I have a mild thing for this? Personally, I love little instances where dirty-talk and other sexual things don't come off as porno movie perfect, makes the sex scene more real to me because lets face it, people often say and do really goofy shit in bed.

Agree with the rest of your comment and I personally love it when dirty-talk is coming out of characters you wouldn't expect it from since it shows they're so lost in the moment they've stopped keeping up their pretenses.

[pauraque]

What I had in mind was something sounding silly in an offputting or unintended-by-the-author way. But of course you are right that sex is often kind of silly, and sometimes things that are really hot when you're all worked up would sound a bit ridiculous out of context! Actually I like that about dirty talk too -- it can make you vulnerable to your partner, because you're trusting them not to laugh at the stuff that gets you hot when you're lost in the moment, as you say.

[torino10154]

I am sort of a less is more person. A few well-placed, well-delivered lines--with the appropriate reaction from the other person, as others have said--works so much better for me than endless dialogue.

I do also agree that one man's kink seems to be another man's squick. I think if you are forcing yourself to write something you don't really like, it's going to be hard for it to come across well. So skip the "slut" and dripping holes stuff and keep it simple.

[this-bloody-cat.livejournal.com]

Such a complicated question! I'm afraid don't actually know what I like about dirty talk. I do like it, usually. I think it shines when done right -- what comes to mind right now is IDK My BFF Hermione? by Lettered; I really liked it there, it was amazingly hot, but I also thought it made the whole story better by making its characters filthier somehow, and human, and a little (a lot, actually) broken. But what I wouldn't be able to tell you would be what, exactly, about those lines worked for me :( And OTOH, when done wrong, it makes things read really, really awkward (and occasionally gross.)

[this-bloody-cat.livejournal.com]

I am totally not editing that comment to add in the pronoun I skipped because I am REFORMED D:

[writcraft]

A number of people have already commented on the fact it's an individual preference and it really is. I like humiliation and degradation as a kink so I'm very happy to see that sort of dirty talk in a fic, but it also depends on the characters and the circumstances. I also love cross-dressing and playing with fetishes, so talk about male characters looking pretty somehow really hits my kink buttons, whereas I know that's a real back-button for others.

For H/D, I love a toppy Draco getting downright filthy, showing the impact through the way the characters react (BLUSHING HARRY FTW! :D) and I do like dialogue with sex scenes although I'm not particularly good at writing it :P - I tend to prefer Draco doing filthy things but then saying something fairly innocuous (i.e. not explicit descriptions) but because of what he's doing that phrase sounding filthy in the context of the actions. In fact, as a general rule that's probably one of my favourite kinds of dirty talk. Because I imagine Severus reading the Quibbler sounds like the filthiest porn ever, he also doesn't have to be particularly explicit with his dirty talk for me :D - he can just purr something like the alphabet in someone's ear and I'll be all over it. On that note, sometimes the description of the way someone says things works for me too, particularly if you don't want to get overly explicit in the actual content of what they say. Depending on the POV you're writing from, the reaction of the character being 'talked' at to the tone, the change in pitch of a voice, the hint of command and so on can be really very nice indeed.

I also like Character A encouraging Character B to be more vocal - sort of forcing the character who is a bit awkward about talking dirty to try to express what they're feeling - but that can of course stray into humiliation, so that might not work for you.

I would think of fics where you have seen it done successfully from your perspective - something which really made you think 'I like this!' (IN FIC :D) and then figure out what sort of boxes it's ticking and why, then set up a dynamic which works for that sort of dirty talk.

Sorry for the ramble <3

[gracerene]

You write great dirty talk, what are you even talking about!

I second all of the bits about personal preference. I adore dirty talk, and I agree with FTS that fantasizing, explaining what they want to do to the other person is super hot. Either while they are having sex, or because the can't have sex ATM and one of them is riling the other up. Basically FTS' comment exactly, actually... :D

[capitu]

I don't have an awful lot to say that hasn't said already, but I did found this!

Wait, huge pic. Best come over here. ^^

[firethesound]

I am laughing so hard at this I'm crying. Actual tears, runny-nosed, CRYING.

[lq-traintracks.livejournal.com]

I think what counts as good has great potential to change depending on the fic, the pairing, the characterization of that pairing in that fic, your mood, etc. (In other words, this comment may be severely unhelpful.)

I think being unsure of the dirty talk before you even write one word of the fic sets you up badly, tbh. You don't get to just experience the natural flow of the story, because you're already worried about this one aspect that, for all you know, could write itself when you get to that point. I would say, maybe try to get back in touch with what you loved about the idea and concentrate on that. The dirty talk will either be a natural outpouring of your already churning enthusiasm for the story or it'll turn out not to *need* dirty talk or just a smidgeon of it or other multitudes of outcomes.

At first I loved the idea for this post -- yes, let's all talk about what we like in dirty talk! \o/ But now I'm sort of wondering if it might lead you to look outside yourself, like... "Okay, I'm going to write this thing; what do other people like in that regard?" Rather than, "What do I want to write? What sorts of dirty talk do *I* enjoy? What would *my* character say here?"

I honestly think that if you write what *you* love, it'll be great. If you let the fic tell you what it needs, it'll feel organic and fresh, as opposed to figuring out beforehand what's good and what's not, because that's not only different for each one of us; it's probably different for you on different days and with different set-ups.

So, I guess, in a nutshell, I'd say focus on what you're already excited about in the story and let the rest just happen as it will. Maybe you just *can't* see the dirty talk from where you're at, and it'll take starting the fic to find it.

<3

[birdsofshore]

Yes! As soon as I typed those things that are not my favourites, I thought, "oh, but when X does that, I like it!" It's so subjective, and even varies from fic to fic.

[birdsofshore]

Oh, that makes total sense and is incredibly useful. So, the reaction of character B is really as important, if not more important, as what character A is actually saying?

[lq-traintracks.livejournal.com]

OMG. Dirty-bad = "Your mom's a whore." *dies laughing* Although, I can think of some fics where that could really work. What does that say about me? O_o Not so much "Hail Satan!" though. Well, Death Eater on Death Eater and just change it to Voldemort. See, this is the problem: they all work in different situations, dammit!

But yeah, Capi, this rules. I'm saving it for all my dirty talk needs.

[birdsofshore]

Oh, the line was in that potions fic sequel: "I can still feel you inside me." Draco says it sort of viciously to Harry afterwards :D

Your suggestions of situations in which dirty talk is hot are really compelling. This is exactly what I needed - some examples of WHY it is hot and WHEN.

[birdsofshore]

This is so useful, alisanne, thank you! Hearing it's the reaction that makes all the difference seems quite a consensus, and I never even thought about that.

[birdsofshore]

A sweet fic where the two character are stumbling and cute suddenly ending up shouting "FILL ME UP DADDY!"

OMG I'm dying here. That's exactly the sort of idiocy I would probably attempt, LOL.

It is indeed very helpful, thank you, and I'm bookmarking that fic now, thanks so much!