FAAAAAANtastic Beasts. Yes, again. I have THOUGHTS, and questions.

[birdsofshore]

So, first of all, two questions and some other discussion for anyone who's seen the film:

Did you notice about Graves being SOOO interested in why Dumbledore was fond of Newt? Gosh, I didn't even think about it til I saw the film the second time knowing Graves was Grindelwald, and then it gave me shivers, how much that question obviously meant to him. I thought that was really cool and clever, and they even showed it in the trailer, and we had NO IDEA. O_O I love that.

I borrowed the script from the library specifically to check on what Grindelwald said to Newt at the end, because it was incomprehensible! Apparently it was: "Will we die, just a little?" WTF does THAT mean? I read a theory that suggested Grindelwald and Newt have ~history, and that does make sense, really, because he addresses this directly to Newt, and this line of dialogue is so inexplicable at the moment, but maybe it means something to Newt? Any ideas on this?

Then, I read the Credence/Graves scene that those of us sick enough to be into twisted grooming really enjoyed, and I think it's actually MORE homo-erotic in the script:

"GRAVES gently, almost seductively, moves his thumb across the cuts, healing them instantly. CREDENCE stares...

GRAVES seems to make a decision. He puts on an earnest, trustworthy expression as, from his pocket, he produces a chain bearing the symbol of the Deathly Hallows.

GRAVES: I want you to have this, Credence. I would trust very few with it -

GRAVES moves close, placing the chain around CREDENCE's neck as he whispers.

GRAVES: Very few.

GRAVES places his hands on either side of CREDENCE's neck, drawing him in, his speech quiet, intimate.

GRAVES: ...but you - you're different.

CREDENCE is unsure, both nervous of and attracted by GRAVE's behaviour...

GRAVES moves even closer to CREDENCE, his face inches from the boy's neck - the effect is both alluring and threatening - as he whispers.

GRAVES: Do this and you will be honoured among wizards. For ever.

GRAVES pulls CREDENCE into a hug which, with his hand on CREDENCE's neck, seems more controlling than affectionate. CREDENCE, overwhelmed by the seeming affection, closes his eyes and relaxes slightly."

OMG, and YES PLEASE. ♥

And some spoilers about the rest of the series, for people who don't mind discussing that:

NO MORE GRAVES! I am really quite mopingly unhappy about this. WOE and bugger, bugger, bugger. This info came from David Heyman in the interview here: Snitchseeker interview . And the Credence/Graves ship is doomed before it properly began *waiiiiillll*

(my son J says this is how most people feel about Sirius dying in HP and it serves me right. !!!)

CREDENCE LIVES: The script has a little description of his apparent death which shows AHA he's not gone...

As Newt follows Madam Picquery’s gaze, he sees a tendril of black matter, a small part of the Obscurus, floating down through the roof. Unnoticed by anyone else, it eventually floats up and away, trying to reconnect with its host.

And apparently A deleted scene showed him boarding a boat at the end of the film. This is great news, but I cannot be truly content without the prospect of more Graves/Credence alleyway angst.

And apparently, we can expect a fadeout of Newt, Tina, Queenie and Jacob as main characters, to be replaced by Grindelwald, Credence and Dumbledore. I thought the first film was pretty dark and depressing on the whole, and it seems the tone of the series will if anything get darker? I'm not sure how I feel about this, but if Credence is involved, it can't be all bad. :DD

And finally: still no news about the casting of Dumbledore... what do you think? Any hopes or fears?

I'd love to hear your thoughts. ♥

Comments

[carpemermaid.livejournal.com]

I saw a hilarious post on tumblr about Graves/Grindelwald's interest in Dumbledore lol, it said something along the lines of being a jealous/possessive boyfriend.

"Will we die, just a little?"
Maybe... and, I'm just shooting in the dark with guesses here, but maybe it has to do with the Obscurus? Maybe it's a hint about Credence?? Maybe, even though Credence is still alive, a part of him dies when the Obscurial is destroyed by the Aurors? Which, if that's the case, would tie it closer to Horcruxes perhaps? IDK IDK??

And that is some SUPER suggestive scene direction lmao! And really interesting to see that alongside how Colin and Ezra played out the scene.

I'm pretty sad about the idea of them phasing out Newt, especially after the bait and switch feel. I mean, I'm totally interested in more Credence and Dumbledore, but I'm left feeling a bit cheated to be introduced to these lovely characters only for them to fade out of importance.

[birdsofshore]

Yes! He totally seems jealous when you rewatch that scene, the whole intensity of it and the focus of his questioning on that ONE issue, hehehe!

I really hope it's not to do with Horcruxes. Augh! But really, JKR could take this in any direction.

I thought people might enjoy the scene direction... :D Wow, the word choice! Seductive, alluring, attracted, intimate... ♥ NGL, their twisted dynamic is my favourite thing from the film. *blush*

I agree with you about the bait and switch! I was feeling so excited to have new canon for a part of the HP verse, but one that wasn't going to affect my HP feels in any way. The connection is exciting in some ways, but mostly it makes me feel concerned that stuff we already love is going to be affected by the new material, possibly in negative ways. It feels REALLY risky and I'm not crazy about risks concerning the things I love most. And yes, why get us all attached to the four main characters (I worked HARD to do that, to get to know them and like them, haha!) and then decide you ACTUALLY want us to care about this whole other story you REALLY wanted to tell...

[carpemermaid.livejournal.com]

The connection is exciting in some ways, but mostly it makes me feel concerned that stuff we already love is going to be affected by the new material, possibly in negative ways.

Oh yes, absolutely, THIS!!! It seems like JKR wanted to tie it in with the existing canon to make it familiar, but like you said that totally opens up the risk of retconning. I was chatting with amorette on her post last night about the speculation about whether or not Ariana was an Obscurial, and how that affects what we know about Dumbledore + Grindelwald's history/motives/morals, not to mention the fact that Harry, Merope, etc didn't turn into them, so it seems kinda finicky at best. I really hope they don't tie in to the Horcruxes, too.

[amorette.livejournal.com]

I did get some insight into that whole "But how about Harry and Snape though..." argument! Someone on tumblr said there probably needs to be an element of having to consciously suppress your magic. That explanation does fill in the bit of finnicky plot holeyness we were feeling.

[birdsofshore]

This didn't bother me, the fact that others didn't turn into Obscurials. It seems like a very rare thing, and stuff like this is not always predictable. I mean humans aren't machines which you can program a certain way and they always react the same, so I think it's a deterministic view to think that everyone in a similar situation would become an Obscurial. For instance, you could put 10 people through the same set of stressful experiences and maybe 3 of them would suffer from depression, 1 from anxiety, 1 from PTSD and the other 5 might recover and not suffer any lasting effects? I don't know if that analogy works, but do you get what I mean?

[amorette.livejournal.com]

I can understand that :)

[shiftylinguini.livejournal.com]

Ahhhhh this has totally been on my mind lol, and that's super interesting about needing to consciously repress magic for this to maybe manifest. I'm curious about Ariana as well...was she mentioned, or is this something people are speculating about after the Obscurials being introduced/what we know about her already?

[amorette.livejournal.com]

As for Ariana, it's only a theory right now about her being an Obscurial.

[shiftylinguini.livejournal.com]

about whether or not Ariana was an Obscurial, and how that affects what we know about Dumbledore + Grindelwald's history/motives/morals, not to mention the fact that Harry, Merope, etc didn't turn into them, so it seems kinda finicky at best. I really hope they don't tie in to the Horcruxes, too.

*huge eyes* yeah that really would add a different layer to the albullert (hahaha) history and to Ariana...I sort of hope she wasn't one...I dunno. :/

Gosh I am so excited to learn more about Albus and Gellert though!!!1

[digthewriter]

Did you notice about Graves being SOOO interested in why Dumbledore was fond of Newt?

That was the first thing I said to my partner when we left the theatre.

[birdsofshore]

I can't believe they dangled that right in front of us in the trailer and nobody had a single clue! LOL, very clever.

[digthewriter]

haha for sure. except I didnt see any trailers b/c I didnt want to know anything before I went to see it.

[birdsofshore]

It's the voice over for this trailer

[digthewriter]

Oh nice. Thanks for sharing. Love that trailer and so glad I didn't see it before. Was kind of glad to be surprised by the suitcase scene in the film itself.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_melodic_/]

OMG YES! Thank you for posting that part of the script. Ahhhh it makes me Credence/Grave feels explode with excitement. I've literally been becoming and more obsessed with them.

Also I am so down with a nice dark Wizarding film. Don't get me wrong, I love the Harry Potter series for all its magic and wonderment and joy and humour but at the same time I found the last few books and movies to be the best, when we really get into the dark, serious and gritty stuff. The idea of a more adult-themed Harry Potter film gets me super excited. And OMG more Credence!! I hope they don't ruin him or his relationship so that I can joyfully ship him and "Graves" forever and ever.

[birdsofshore]

Ah, mel, I was so into that part of the script.

Did you read the spoilers under the second cut? I don't want to react to your comments until I'm sure what you're saying, LOL.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_melodic_/]

Ahh I thought I did but clearly I didn't read it close enough. D:

Okay, okay. I will get over this. I mean I adore Credence and I really look forward to studying his character. And then I will write many AU's... because, well, what is fiction but just tiny little au's all branching in different directions?

[birdsofshore]

Yes, I'm sorry, I couldn't tell whether you'd read about 'Mr' Graves. I think it's bloody tragic. I was so looking forward to seeing him again, whether the Polyjuiced version or otherwise. And any future interactions between him and Credence would have been so interesting, ugh!

But yes, Credence! I can see sooooo many interesting ways for his story arc to go, and I hope that (since we can't have twisted Graves/Credence forever and ever) we might get tragic manipulated child in the grip of a dark villain and then GLORIOUS REDEMPTION LOLOL

ah, the feels ♥

[amorette.livejournal.com]

Did you notice about Graves being SOOO interested in why Dumbledore was fond of Newt?

OMG!! I literally just realized I should be viewing this from the context of Grindelwald saying it. Duhh. Omg there is so much we could conjecture here LOL. I live for it. Like, was he implying some sort of ~~jealousyyy~~???

o_O

:D

It makes me hopefuly for requited romantic feelings between Albus and Gellert. I was talking to someone else and we were like, watch them make it unrequited and Albus just pined for Gellert forever. Sadness.

[birdsofshore]

I didn't notice it at all the first time I saw it, but when I watched it the second time, knowing who Graves was, it stood out a MILE. I definitely inferred jealousy from it - it was just such a random line of questioning at that point, the word 'fond' is quite suggestive of a kind of intimacy that's more than friendship or professional loyalty, and he says it almost like an insulting accusation - "What makes Albus Dumbledore so fond of you?"

It could just be Colin Farrell's interpretation, of course. There's nothing about it in the script.

[amorette.livejournal.com]

Thats so interesting that it's not in the script!

I actually think Colin Farrell was amazing. As was Johnny Depp for all of two lines that he spoke. Actually Depp shocked me bc originally I was like, ew come on really? Because of his abuse allegations. But then you see him act and youre like... Wow. Wow. He really is just something else. Its not even possible to deny how good an actor he is obviously.

[birdsofshore]

I'm sorry, I didn't like Depp at all! I wanted to be able to watch Grindelwald without being distracted by a well-known actor in the role - I wish they'd cast a relatively unknown person. And I didn't actually like what he did with it. I didn't like the accent, or his appearance, or his mystifying line of dialogue - I thought it was all over the top.

But I thought Farrell was FANTASTIC. I'm mesmerised by his performance, actually, and so sad he won't be in any future films.

[amorette.livejournal.com]

I totally relate to your feels about Depp! Im sort of in this middle ground where if Id have to say what I would have prefered, Id definitely want what you just described; but at the same time grdgingly accepting that Depp is a great actor. Haha

And hes so much older than I imagined! But is he supposed to be at this time? I somehow... dont think so? I might be forgetting though. But even in the 8 original movies, they did cast everyone much older than the book timeline would have suggested. Idk why I was so shocked to see they did that.

[birdsofshore]

We were working this out: I think Grindelwald would be early 40s at this time. I think Depp is 50 something? So, yes, they aged up again. :(

[birdsofshore]

And sorry, when I said "There's nothing about it in the script," I meant, no direction as to how the lines should be said. Some other parts are quite descriptive (eg the Credence/Graves scene I quoted) but the Graves/Newt scene just has the lines written as said in the film.

I am so excited to see who is cast as Dumbledore! You must have your heart in your mouth thinking about it!

[amorette.livejournal.com]

Yes! I think its quite clear I am very invested in Dumbledore and his storyline w Gellert so yeah, I have all this weird ~worry about it. Which shouldnt be anyways because its not like the other movies cast everyone how Id have pictured anyways. But then I didnt think of it the same way, that was just an interpretation to me and clear it wasnt like supposed to represent actual canon 100%. A movie adaptation is always like that.

I think with FB its possibly different because, ether being in fandom made me feel more emotionally attached than ever, or the fact that its actively creating new things now as opposed to just adapting it for screen. Im super excited about hearing what happens with the Albus/Gellert storyline but hearing recent stuff online made me realize I shouldnt get too emotionally dependant on my feels being fulfilled. Im gonna just try to expect she will make it an unrequited love affair lol. Just except it! That way I wont be disapointed.

[birdsofshore]

Oh, gosh, no, I hope that doesn't happen, the unrequited thing. That would be crappy.

But yes to minimising anguish by expecting the worst! I was physically feeling sick over Cursed Child! Draco just before they revealed the casting and the promo photos, and I didn't like his portrayal at all on stage, but I still adore the play for what it is and am going to see it again this week with much excitement. I just ignore the fact that someone who's meant to be playing Draco is in it when I think about it! He's not Draco to me.

[amorette.livejournal.com]

I really relate to that. You know, sometimes I think we need to let all that initial angst out in order to be able to feel relaxed later and enjoy the thing for what it is. Im so happy to hear you enjoy Cursed Child now! It's great that you can engage with the positive aspects of it now and find enjoyment in it.

It seems the Harry Potter world is going to keep expanding, and thats not something any of us is going to be able to change!

[birdsofshore]

Interestingly, a different actor played Draco this time and I was *so* much more into it! He just looked much more the part, and had the right posture, etc. I still don't like the character of Draco the way he's portrayed in the script, but with this actor it at least was a LOT better.

[enchanted-jae.livejournal.com]

I was a bit "Wha...?" at the homoerotic aspect of "Graves" and his interactions with Credence, but once I discovered he was Grindelwald, it made perfect sense!

No wonder poor Dumbles found him so alluring.

[birdsofshore]

I didn't stop to think about 'why', I was just like YESSSSSS every time they stepped into that alley, LOL. Easily pleased.

But Grindelwald in his own form was pretty revolting, it was only as Graves he was the slightest bit alluring, IMO.

[shiftylinguini.livejournal.com]

OH WHAT credence is maybe alive?!?!?! oh gosh, that's very interesting!!!! I saw Newt watch the little black tendril, but I wasn't totally sure what i should read into that (and i really, really needed to pee at that point, so all my thoughts were 50% bladder related lmao)

This totally changes my view on a LOT of things, specifically him, and oohhhhh getting darker - I am totally okay with that. I did find that whole hand-healing scene to tender and amazing and completely wrong in a hundred thousand different ways and I am very keen to sit and mull this all over, argh and the hug, good lord more controlling than affectionate, how very accurate!

my little mind is whirring after seeing this film!!

[cloelockless2.livejournal.com]

Squeeeeeee! Thank you so much for the script parts! These Graves/Credence interactions were a dream come true, I couldn't believe my eyes \o/ And the underlying accusation in Graves interrogation of Newt was so ... I flailed. Actually I think that was the line that gave Gr. away for me XD
I am so excited that it will be more a Grindelwald series than a Newt series (although I adore the character that just came to life). I was wondering how in the world they were going to make Newt the main good guy and Grindelwald the main bad guy. It didn't make any sense to me. I can see how their paths could intersect but they can't be archenemies...
I really hope they don't ruin the Dumbledore/Grindelwald storyline.
I keep repeating to myself "trust Rowling with this", she always put details in with a purpose. "Will we die, just a little" is so intriguing.
Graves was so seductive, I wonder how Depp will live up to the challenge and how they'll find a Dumbledore that'll make the chemistry believable. And how Credence will interact with either Newt or Grindelwald... I'm thrilled that we'll get to see more of him.

ad lib :D

[anemonen.livejournal.com]

Ahhh finally able to flail about the film!! I saw it a while ago but haven't had time. But yes!! Loved it so much! And now I really want to watch it again and notice all the things, like Graves being so interested in Dumbledore :O

I'm going to answer your last post here too, and yes! I loved how Redmayne played Newt. It's so nice to see a hero that's so awkward. All the things you mentioned about his hesitance with eye contact and his gait and everything. And how passionate he was about his creatures. I can totally see Luna with someone who's grown up with Newt's influence :)

And Credence! I've seen Ezra Miller do some fantastic roles before (creepily offputting in 'We need to talk about Kevin' and so charming in 'Perks of being a wallflower'), so I was excited to see him here. And that he'll come back! With you on loving Queenie and Kowalski and their chemistry. Also guttet that he was obliviated, but the last scene with the pastries and Queenie in his shop was delightful.

And! My favourite thing - so many films just tear apart cities and we never hear anything about the devastation, but here they put it back together and it was beautiful. That made me weirdly happy <3