Don't get your wand_in_a_knot
Apr. 30th, 2016 10:54 amI am SO EXCITED about the new Harry Potter 24 hour porn challenge!
wand_in_a_knot is a multi-shipping comm, inspired by similar challenges in other fandoms and I'm so glad that the fabulous
writcraft and
vaysh are holding one for HP. Participants get tagged on a random day during the month and have 24 hours to create an R or NC-17 rated fanwork. If you can't manage to complete the challenge in 24 hours, the baton just passes to another participant and there are no penalties, so although it's fast and exciting, it's also hopefully low-stress. And will provide the fandom with lots of super-speedy smut. ♥
(don't get your)
wand_in_a_knot –
the 24 Hours Harry Potter Porn Tag Challenge!
– Sign-ups start Sunday, May 1 –

I'm really hoping to get a spot when sign ups open tomorrow. Will you be signing up? Considering it? Nervous? Excited? Please join up anyway! Most of us are entirely new to this sort of challenge, so we can all muddle through in a big flail of nerves and squee together!
Even if you're not signing up, please watch the comm so you can enjoy the fun during May. \o/
I also saw some discussion on
kerrilee75's LJ about ratings, and I thought it might be interesting to talk about, both in general, and specifically for
wand_in_a_knot where all submissions have to be R or NC-17.
The MPAA ratings wiki has some clear guidance on content for different ratings.
The thing I find hardest to rate is when there is sex but it isn't very explicit. However, my simplest answer to this is to ONLY write explicit sex, heh. But in general, I think if it's clear sex is taking place but there's only some undressing or light groping with a fade to black or a sort of euphemistic description such as "they found release together", I would think that was probably a PG-13. I would say in art this was the equivalent of bodies under the bedclothes. If the sex is described more clearly, eg some mention of what act occurred, some mention of hard cocks, etc, I would say it's an R. In art I would imagine the bedcovers are now off, and you can tell what's occurring, but not explicitly see erect cocks or vaginas or arseholes or a blow job or cunnilingus or whatever is happening. If however there's a description of a cock or a vagina (rather than a brief mention), a description of ejaculation, a description of penetration, or rimming, or oral sex, or whatever sex act, and these contain any details, I would say that's a NC-17. In art, if you can SEE erect penises, or vaginas, or penetration, or ejaculation, or oral sex, etc, and it's not obscured by a hand or a body position or artful hair placement etc, I think that's NC-17.
So, to give an example using wanking (I wrote these examples for this purpose, please don't point and laugh :D):
Harry felt quite hot and bothered after seeing Malfoy's pale arse in the showers. When he got into bed that night, he didn't keep his hands above the covers.
In my opinion, that is PG-13. We all know what's happening, but nothing is explicitly described. Draco is naked, but it's not described in detail and he's showering, not in a sexual situation. However:
Harry's trousers suddenly seemed far too tight as he watched Malfoy smooth soap lovingly over the curves of his arse. Back in the dorm, Harry Summoned lube and quickly brought himself off.
I would say that's an R. There's an erection now, Malfoy's nudity is more sexually-oriented, and there's no doubt that Harry masturbates.
PURELY FOR SCIENCE, I wrote an NC-17 version as well.
Harry's cock throbbed, trapped against the zip of his jeans as he watched Malfoy run a soapy finger along the cleft of his arse. That night, lights out couldn't come soon enough. Harry let out a low groan of pleasure as his slick hand grasped the hot length of his cock, stroking slow and firm until he came to a juddering climax all over the sheets.
I feel FAIRLY SURE that's NC-17. But maybe I should continue? Just to be sure. ;)
Those are my opinions. What do you think? Is the MPAA guide useful? And what on earth should happen if there's a kink or other taboo acts involved? Does that change the rating? I look forward to hearing your thoughts, even if you don't agree with me.
(don't get your)
the 24 Hours Harry Potter Porn Tag Challenge!
– Sign-ups start Sunday, May 1 –

I'm really hoping to get a spot when sign ups open tomorrow. Will you be signing up? Considering it? Nervous? Excited? Please join up anyway! Most of us are entirely new to this sort of challenge, so we can all muddle through in a big flail of nerves and squee together!
Even if you're not signing up, please watch the comm so you can enjoy the fun during May. \o/
I also saw some discussion on
The MPAA ratings wiki has some clear guidance on content for different ratings.
The thing I find hardest to rate is when there is sex but it isn't very explicit. However, my simplest answer to this is to ONLY write explicit sex, heh. But in general, I think if it's clear sex is taking place but there's only some undressing or light groping with a fade to black or a sort of euphemistic description such as "they found release together", I would think that was probably a PG-13. I would say in art this was the equivalent of bodies under the bedclothes. If the sex is described more clearly, eg some mention of what act occurred, some mention of hard cocks, etc, I would say it's an R. In art I would imagine the bedcovers are now off, and you can tell what's occurring, but not explicitly see erect cocks or vaginas or arseholes or a blow job or cunnilingus or whatever is happening. If however there's a description of a cock or a vagina (rather than a brief mention), a description of ejaculation, a description of penetration, or rimming, or oral sex, or whatever sex act, and these contain any details, I would say that's a NC-17. In art, if you can SEE erect penises, or vaginas, or penetration, or ejaculation, or oral sex, etc, and it's not obscured by a hand or a body position or artful hair placement etc, I think that's NC-17.
So, to give an example using wanking (I wrote these examples for this purpose, please don't point and laugh :D):
Harry felt quite hot and bothered after seeing Malfoy's pale arse in the showers. When he got into bed that night, he didn't keep his hands above the covers.
In my opinion, that is PG-13. We all know what's happening, but nothing is explicitly described. Draco is naked, but it's not described in detail and he's showering, not in a sexual situation. However:
Harry's trousers suddenly seemed far too tight as he watched Malfoy smooth soap lovingly over the curves of his arse. Back in the dorm, Harry Summoned lube and quickly brought himself off.
I would say that's an R. There's an erection now, Malfoy's nudity is more sexually-oriented, and there's no doubt that Harry masturbates.
PURELY FOR SCIENCE, I wrote an NC-17 version as well.
Harry's cock throbbed, trapped against the zip of his jeans as he watched Malfoy run a soapy finger along the cleft of his arse. That night, lights out couldn't come soon enough. Harry let out a low groan of pleasure as his slick hand grasped the hot length of his cock, stroking slow and firm until he came to a juddering climax all over the sheets.
I feel FAIRLY SURE that's NC-17. But maybe I should continue? Just to be sure. ;)
Those are my opinions. What do you think? Is the MPAA guide useful? And what on earth should happen if there's a kink or other taboo acts involved? Does that change the rating? I look forward to hearing your thoughts, even if you don't agree with me.
no subject
Date: 2016-04-30 11:19 am (UTC)Also, I pretty much agree with you as far as ratings go and your examples illustrate the point perfectly. *wipes drool*
I do occasionally err on the side of caution when dealing with particular kinks, though usually more when it's in the realm of dub- or non-con, underage, etc. I think you can have an R rated erotic asphyxiation fic, for example, if the details are minimal. If I wrote Snape the pedo priest (which I have done), I'd likely make it R regardless of sexual content.
There are times I utilize Soft R and Hard R as well. Soft R is when I feel more like a 15-16 year old would be OK with it, but 13 seems young and yet it's not truly enough to make it R (those people would be disappointed in the content LOL). And Hard R would sometimes be less than explicit but pretty intense (and again, someone expecting NC-17 would be disappointed LOL). In both these cases, at AO3, I do just rate them the higher rating but here on LJ I can leave it this way.
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Date: 2016-04-30 05:09 pm (UTC)I see what you're saying about the content affecting the rating, and the nuances of it. I find it a pretty interesting subject! On a related topic, I often find myself amazed at what gets into a U (G) rated film! I thought the idea was that a U film would contain nothing unsuitable for even very young children, but mine have often been scared over the years. :(( Maybe the problem is that they are massive wimps like their mother!
(no subject)
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Date: 2016-04-30 11:34 am (UTC)😝
Can't wait to see what this little challenge can produce from our ever talented group of writers.
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Date: 2016-04-30 05:11 pm (UTC)I'm so excited to read
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Date: 2016-04-30 11:53 am (UTC)I think your snippets of Harry masturbating on Draco pretty much show what the ratings entail.
It's interesting how the MPAA are all about child and youth protection (with the three areas of nudity & sex, language, and drugs & alcohol), whereas fandom uses ratings practically as a guide whether to read or not, depending on your personal preferences in regards to explicit sex scenes. Warnings, I think, are much more important for fandom when it comes to "protection"/self-protection. And yes, warnings are also often reading incentives. I prefer the term "Content Notes" than "Warnings", actually.
How will we handle it at
The challenge is self-posting, and participants themselves either give their entry an R or NC-17 rating. Writ and me will not check or police that. If an entry deserves only a G or PG rating, we may ask the participant to rev it up. It's up to the participant then what they want to do. But I don't think that will be a problem. ;) Though just from my experience with the similar challenge in Sherlock fandom, depending on your story idea, the tough part can be to actually reach the R rating. ;)
no subject
Date: 2016-04-30 12:15 pm (UTC)Ditto. That way it's warnings or enticements depending on your POV.
no subject
Date: 2016-04-30 04:36 pm (UTC)Re: Wand in a Knot. I meant to ask, if for some reason you do have to pass on your turn, does it return to you again later in the month so you still have an opportunity to create something?
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Date: 2016-04-30 05:15 pm (UTC)This... is not a problem I have encountered myself. My difficulty is trying to find enough of an excuse for a plot on which to hang the smut :DD
It's a pleasure to promote the fest. Thank you so much for organising it for us all. ♥
(no subject)
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Date: 2016-04-30 12:08 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-04-30 05:16 pm (UTC)I hope you decide to join in! I always enjoy your stories.
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Date: 2016-04-30 12:19 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-04-30 12:24 pm (UTC)In short: I don't know what I'm doing, and cheers. But I must say I'm still unclear, and will need some further development of these snippets you are writing.... for very academic reasons.
(no subject)
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Date: 2016-04-30 05:17 pm (UTC)♥
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Date: 2016-04-30 12:38 pm (UTC)The Science of Birdsofshore™ LOL I love your examples. I want to finish with "yes please" but I don't even know what I'm saying now. LOL
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Date: 2016-04-30 05:22 pm (UTC)I'm so glad you liked my Science. It was tough work, but someone had to do it. *adjusts glasses and lab coat*
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Date: 2016-04-30 12:52 pm (UTC)Honestly, being Australian, the American ratings system confused the hell out of me the first time I saw it! The age ranges seem like such a random selection to someone who grew up with: G (general), PG (parental guidance recommended for those under 15), M (not recommended for those under 15), MA (restricted, 15+), R (restricted, 18+), and X (strictly adults only and only available in two territories these days.) I much prefer the Ao3 ratings, because it's a little hard to mistake an explicit rating for anything but what it says on the box. But yes, I tend to do what you do and only write explicit sex scenes so I know what to rate it.
The new comm sounds like so much fun, but I may sit this one out and see how it goes the first time. I know for a fact that there's others out there who are much better than me at coming up with random smut in a 24 hour period!
no subject
Date: 2016-04-30 01:25 pm (UTC)For movies themselves I actually look at IMDB where you can see what a film is rated in other countries. That's where the difference between sex and violence is usually the most apparent.
I must say I think it's interesting that 15 is sort of the big cut-off age for Australia and that any age under that is somewhat equal.
(no subject)
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Date: 2016-04-30 01:17 pm (UTC)Ahhhh, I love how you gave such great examples for your rating discussion! Well, let's just say I really enjoyed reading them~ ;]
But actually it really is rather helpful because I sometimes struggle with rating certain works. I am in the same boat as you, and like to be explicit as often as possible, but for some stories it just doesn't work and then I am left with: "huh, is this PG-13 or R?" If there is any foul language my beta will often urge me to use an R rating... I guess just in case! Your guide is super useful, but I do also wonderful about kinks or taboo acts... I suppose it also depends on what someone considers taboo as everyone has a different limit. In those cases, just stating the certain taboo or kink the content/warnings seems the best way to go and base the rating on the explicitness of the sex.
no subject
Date: 2016-04-30 06:15 pm (UTC)I think your beta is right about the language... I think I read that if the word 'fuck' is used more than once in a film, it automatically receives an R rating. But it's certainly a complex subject. I don't envy the people who have to rate the actual films we see in cinemas!
And that's wonderful that you're signing up for WIAK.
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Date: 2016-04-30 01:59 pm (UTC)Also, I NEED MORE EXAMPLES. MORE SCIENCE. ;-P
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Date: 2016-04-30 06:16 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-04-30 01:59 pm (UTC)But yeah this is interesting! I am generally with you on how you define the ratings, I think; but yes it is so nuanced.
This is what I tend to do (whether or not it's a good way to rate Idk lol!) (also this is just sexual rating not like, how disturbing the content is otherwise, but I think that's what your post focuses on anyways)
G/PG - crushing and love are okay, nothing sexual
PG-13 - kissing is the extent of how sexual it gets
R - mentions of sexual organs but no direct showing or contact
NC-17 - direct contact with or descriptions of sexual organs or activities
BUT WHO REALLY KNOWS?! :D
Oh this does make me think about Tropes and how we require an R min rating. I think I go by the above for that. Maybe we should spell it out in the com rules, maybe that would be more fair for participants? Usually it's just how sexual I feel it is, and its all very subjective.
Wand in a Knot sounds super fun.
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Date: 2016-04-30 07:59 pm (UTC)I mostly agree with you on the ratings, but I think you could have more than kissing in a PG-13 fic. I think you could have some light groping, some undressing (not nudity), etc. Just nothing hot and heavy. I mean, in your examples, there is something in between "just kissing" and "mention of sexual organs", yeah? But I don't know if I am right...
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Date: 2016-04-30 04:41 pm (UTC)I'd say you summed up the ratings system I use about right. When I'm in doubt I poke Torino and ask her opinion. *shrugs*
Although, I think your examples were a bit...brief. Maybe you could expand on them a bit, especially that last one. You know, so things are crystal clear. *nods*
:D
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Date: 2016-04-30 08:01 pm (UTC)Hehehe at expanding on the examples. Perhaps I could use that scenario as inspiration for WIAK?
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Date: 2016-04-30 06:19 pm (UTC)Also, totally with you on those ratings. That's generally what I think when rating my stuff, but, like you, I generally just include lots of explicit sex so I don't have to bother with thinking about it. ;)
no subject
Date: 2016-04-30 06:35 pm (UTC)And that's how we like it. ;)
Edited for coding fail. :P
(no subject)
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Date: 2016-04-30 07:26 pm (UTC)I love the scientific experiment. I wasn't sure I understood the conclusion though, I may have to read it again just to be sure *drools* :D
<3
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Date: 2016-04-30 08:08 pm (UTC)It's a pleasure to prompte the fest. I'm really delighted that it's happening. ♥
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Date: 2016-04-30 08:38 pm (UTC)Absolutely love your examples. And your very good advice to just write everything explicit. Which really is easier! I agonize over ratings where the smut is there but not overly detailed. It just makes sense to write about cocks all the time. Less hassle that way. Everyone should clearly do that from now on. ::nodnod:: But yes, very much agree with your rating examples, which is a bit of a relief because sometimes I worry about being too quick to rate something higher than it should be? I usually go with fade-to-black smut with no mention of dicks is PG-13, mention of dicks but no descriptions is R, and anything more explicit than that is NC-17. Which is... basically what you've said. XD
I'm really curious where the lines would be drawn (or redrawn?) if there's kink involved. But I can't recall ever having come across a fic involving kink that was anything less than NC-17. I think most people who want to write about a kink want to really explore it, and the rating very quickly goes up from there.
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Date: 2016-04-30 08:52 pm (UTC)It just makes sense to write about cocks all the time.
I KNOW. I keep telling Mr Birds this. I think he's starting to understand.
(no subject)
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Date: 2016-04-30 10:34 pm (UTC)When I rate my fics, I tend to do it like this:
G = no kissing, hand-holding is the extent of any romantic involvement
PG = a kiss on the lips, but no further (ie: something I would be totally comfortable reading to my 6y/o)
PG-13/T = kissing with tongue, maybe some wandering hands (my 11y/o would love it and never become grossed out)
R/M = sex acts that are alluded to through metaphor/simile, glossed over language, or a scene that is much more about the emotion of the moment rather than the act itself
NC-17/E = sex acts that are explicitly described: cocks and holes, come spurting all over the place, tongues going places that you can't squint and pretend that they're written about an elbow.
I once read something from a writer, where she talked about how to write an explicit sex scene without ever using names for appendages and orifices, and I admit I tend to follow that advice on the whole. I say things like, "he pushed himself inside," rather than, "he pushed his cock into his hole," because in my opinion, if the scene has been written well enough to that point, we all know that Tab A is going to go into Slot B - we all know he's not going to be trying to stick his finger up his nose. And I would rate a fic like this as NC-17 despite the lack of explicit nouns used. I think for me, rating comes down to what I can imagine happening before my eyes as I read the words. So I think I agree with you on the whole, but I just have a slightly different idea of what R/M relates to? Or maybe not, I might have been distracted by the porn...
Really interesting discussion!
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Date: 2016-04-30 10:42 pm (UTC)I hope you sign up for WIAK! it really does look so fun....
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Date: 2016-05-01 04:10 pm (UTC)I loved the lengths (ahem) to which you are willing to go for science.
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Date: 2016-05-01 09:26 pm (UTC)I'm glad you enjoyed my scientific research. Someone had to do it ;)