What makes for good dirty talk? (~in fic)

[birdsofshore]

I had an idea for a story and it would probably involve a lot of dirty talking and general filthiness. Then I realised that this is something I really struggle with.

What, in your opinion, makes dirty talking hot in fic? Are there things that just don't work for you when you're reading it? What is your favourite kind to read? Have you got a favourite story that involves dirty talk? And, if you're a writer, can you give me any tips? Because I sort of stink at it. I do try, because I know it's great when it works, but I usually fail and have to be bailed out by a beta. I got several compliments on a filthy line in a recent fic and it was actually raitala's doing, LOL.

I even feel awkward READING dirty talk, often, because I'm not always sure how I feel about people calling each other slut and so on, and I'm not fond of porny descriptions of dripping holes. So I basically need a Dirty Talk primer. Can you help? Thank you!

Comments

[kitty_fic]

I think the problem with dirty talk is that it really comes down to personal preference. Some of the things you mentioned that you don't like are things I REALLY DO like.

I'll certainly be following this discussion though! Very interesting!

[birdsofshore]

Yes! As soon as I typed those things that are not my favourites, I thought, "oh, but when X does that, I like it!" It's so subjective, and even varies from fic to fic.

[sdkshelly.livejournal.com]

For me, I think it's not so much about the content of the dirty talk, but the reaction of the other party to the dirty talk that makes it one of my favorite things in fic. Like you, I'm not a real fan of the degrading dirty talk in general, but in certain instances it has really worked for me, but that's because it's really working for the other person. (Er, I have no idea if I'm making sense or not.)

[birdsofshore]

Oh, that makes total sense and is incredibly useful. So, the reaction of character B is really as important, if not more important, as what character A is actually saying?

[firethesound]

I'm eager to see what other people like about this. Dirty talk is one of those things that when it's done right can make a scene ten thousand times more awesome. But yeah, if it doesn't hit your preferences it can make things sort of awkward. And everyone has different preferences, so...

Personally, I really like it when the characters are just so into what they're doing that they can't help talking about it. Or where they want the other person so damn much they want to do everything to them, but can only do one thing at a time so they talk about the rest and what they're going to do next. Or where one of the characters is sort of in disbelief the other one is so into it and they're all, "look at how much you want this, etc etc" I personally dislike it when it's meant to be humiliating or there's a lot of name-calling or it's super-explicit. But I know other people like that. ::shrug:: ETA: Also, yes, what other people have said. How the characters react is a big part of it, too. Like if the writer really sells it how much a character likes what's being said, I'm far more likely to be into it myself.

Anyhow, yes, will be watching this because it's something I feel like I struggle with as well.

What was the filthy line?

[birdsofshore]

Oh, the line was in that potions fic sequel: "I can still feel you inside me." Draco says it sort of viciously to Harry afterwards :D

Your suggestions of situations in which dirty talk is hot are really compelling. This is exactly what I needed - some examples of WHY it is hot and WHEN.

[alisanne.livejournal.com]

So as the others said, dirty talk is very individual. It's totally about the character's reaction to it. Even if the talk is degrading, (which I don't find appealing) if the character is into it, I can follow along. Especially if their body reacts favorably and their partner notices. :)

[birdsofshore]

This is so useful, alisanne, thank you! Hearing it's the reaction that makes all the difference seems quite a consensus, and I never even thought about that.

[lauren3210.livejournal.com]

Okay, despite being a writer myself, I've not yet had the opportunity to try my hand at dirty talk in any of my fics so far, but I'll try to answer this from what I know.

Basically, there's soft-core dirty talk and hard-core dirty talk, and the difference is between the object and the subject of the dirty talk. So soft-core is basically the talker saying what they like (subject), for example "I like watching you come,", whereas hard-core is the talker saying what they want from their partner (object), for example "I want you to come on my face."

When it comes to actually reading it, for me personally the words just have to fit the mood, not only of the sex itself but the fic in general. A sweet fic where the two character are stumbling and cute suddenly ending up shouting "FILL ME UP DADDY!" is just not going to work. But a frustrating build up where everything spills over into frantic fucking is much more likely to have some dirty talk in it.

I generally prefer soft-core dirty talk to hard-core, and I actually do have a favourite story with some of that in it, if you're interested: http://archiveofourown.org/works/154453/chapters/221973 - that's chapter 3, and really hot, lol

I hope this helps?

[birdsofshore]

A sweet fic where the two character are stumbling and cute suddenly ending up shouting "FILL ME UP DADDY!"

OMG I'm dying here. That's exactly the sort of idiocy I would probably attempt, LOL.

It is indeed very helpful, thank you, and I'm bookmarking that fic now, thanks so much!

[tamlane.livejournal.com]

What makes dirty talk hot to me is the name-calling and slut-shaming and general degradation and menace and threats of making it so one's partner can't sit down for a week without feeling the ghost of their cock, so... I don't think my advice would be much help here. XD

Instead I'll just point to snegurochka_lee's (Ninth Rehearsal for) The Main Event as a fine example of dirty talk done well.

[birdsofshore]

You see, when you put it like that, it sounds really quite pleasant ;)

I do always enjoy the dirty talk in your fics, actually, including the degradation, so I need to think carefully about why I feel uncomfortable about it at other times, I suppose.

That fic of lee's is about my favourite thing in the world. I'm going to have to go and read it again now you've left that evil little link there.

[inell.livejournal.com]

As a reader, I enjoy it when it is used liked the above commenter mentions. In the carried away way or wanting to turn on the partner by talking about what they'd like to do to them. I have certain characters that I think dirty talk belongs more in their wheelhouse while others might not strike me as dirty talkers but a good author can make anything convincing. I don't like the humiliation aspect, personally, but I like the reaction from the person hearing it and I like the needy aspects, too. The worst thing to me is if it doesn't flow or seems forced.

As a writer, I have those characters that do talk filthy and I have others that probably wouldn't be as comfortable talking that way. It really depends on the scene and characters for me. I don't know if the dirty talk I write is good or not, but some readers seem to enjoy Blaise doing it a lot for some reason (he tends to describe things a lot and can be pretty depraved in what he says to arouse someone).

*is no help*

[birdsofshore]

That's interesting, that you find it flows from some characters naturally and seems more IC for them. I hadn't thought about that so much. I think I did manage a bit of dirty talking in a fic recently and it sort of came naturally from the characterisation. I guess if I think about that character when I am trying to write it again in the future, that might help.

[pauraque]

This is a tricky question because I think dirty talk is less a distinct kink, and more a thing that can be used to express lots of different kinks. I mean, if spanking is a kink for you, then "I'm going to smack that ass so hard" could be effective dirty talk, but if it's not, then it'll leave you cold.

But speaking in general terms, what I like about it is that it gives the characters a chance to reveal their own kinks and desires. Saying out loud what gets you hot can be very intimate and revealing, and it's exciting to break taboos and say things that you would never say in everyday life.

Dirty talk can really be about anything, it doesn't have to be based on humiliation. Whatever you've decided the characters like, just have them talk about it before/while they do it, and there's your dirty talk. :) You'll never be able to please everybody, because whatever words or concepts do it for you, it's a guarantee that someone else finds them squicky or silly-sounding, so you kinda just have to dive in and write what you would want to hear.

[kitty_fic]

+1
Everything about this comment!

[torino10154]

I am sort of a less is more person. A few well-placed, well-delivered lines--with the appropriate reaction from the other person, as others have said--works so much better for me than endless dialogue.

I do also agree that one man's kink seems to be another man's squick. I think if you are forcing yourself to write something you don't really like, it's going to be hard for it to come across well. So skip the "slut" and dripping holes stuff and keep it simple.

[birdsofshore]

I just slipped a 'slut' into what I was writing this week! It was in a very playful context, but it's there, and I quite like it. But, yes, you're right, it needs to be something I feel comfortable with. I like the advice that less is more, also. Thank you so much!

[this-bloody-cat.livejournal.com]

Such a complicated question! I'm afraid don't actually know what I like about dirty talk. I do like it, usually. I think it shines when done right -- what comes to mind right now is IDK My BFF Hermione? by Lettered; I really liked it there, it was amazingly hot, but I also thought it made the whole story better by making its characters filthier somehow, and human, and a little (a lot, actually) broken. But what I wouldn't be able to tell you would be what, exactly, about those lines worked for me :( And OTOH, when done wrong, it makes things read really, really awkward (and occasionally gross.)

[this-bloody-cat.livejournal.com]

I am totally not editing that comment to add in the pronoun I skipped because I am REFORMED D:

[writcraft]

A number of people have already commented on the fact it's an individual preference and it really is. I like humiliation and degradation as a kink so I'm very happy to see that sort of dirty talk in a fic, but it also depends on the characters and the circumstances. I also love cross-dressing and playing with fetishes, so talk about male characters looking pretty somehow really hits my kink buttons, whereas I know that's a real back-button for others.

For H/D, I love a toppy Draco getting downright filthy, showing the impact through the way the characters react (BLUSHING HARRY FTW! :D) and I do like dialogue with sex scenes although I'm not particularly good at writing it :P - I tend to prefer Draco doing filthy things but then saying something fairly innocuous (i.e. not explicit descriptions) but because of what he's doing that phrase sounding filthy in the context of the actions. In fact, as a general rule that's probably one of my favourite kinds of dirty talk. Because I imagine Severus reading the Quibbler sounds like the filthiest porn ever, he also doesn't have to be particularly explicit with his dirty talk for me :D - he can just purr something like the alphabet in someone's ear and I'll be all over it. On that note, sometimes the description of the way someone says things works for me too, particularly if you don't want to get overly explicit in the actual content of what they say. Depending on the POV you're writing from, the reaction of the character being 'talked' at to the tone, the change in pitch of a voice, the hint of command and so on can be really very nice indeed.

I also like Character A encouraging Character B to be more vocal - sort of forcing the character who is a bit awkward about talking dirty to try to express what they're feeling - but that can of course stray into humiliation, so that might not work for you.

I would think of fics where you have seen it done successfully from your perspective - something which really made you think 'I like this!' (IN FIC :D) and then figure out what sort of boxes it's ticking and why, then set up a dynamic which works for that sort of dirty talk.

Sorry for the ramble <3

[birdsofshore]

Oh, great advice, thank you!

I love a toppy Draco getting downright filthy, showing the impact through the way the characters react (BLUSHING HARRY FTW! :D)

YES PLEASE. I think I had underestimated the other character's reaction to the whole thing. But, I also know that the right line in the right place can be devastating if its worded correctly. It's that power I'd like to have!

[gracerene]

You write great dirty talk, what are you even talking about!

I second all of the bits about personal preference. I adore dirty talk, and I agree with FTS that fantasizing, explaining what they want to do to the other person is super hot. Either while they are having sex, or because the can't have sex ATM and one of them is riling the other up. Basically FTS' comment exactly, actually... :D

[birdsofshore]

You're very sweet, grace. If you like any time I've tried dirty talk it's probably because my betas stepped in, LOL!

I adore that scenario, too. Riling someone up is just DELICIOUS.

[capitu]

I don't have an awful lot to say that hasn't said already, but I did found this!

Wait, huge pic. Best come over here. ^^

[firethesound]

I am laughing so hard at this I'm crying. Actual tears, runny-nosed, CRYING.

[lq-traintracks.livejournal.com]

I think what counts as good has great potential to change depending on the fic, the pairing, the characterization of that pairing in that fic, your mood, etc. (In other words, this comment may be severely unhelpful.)

I think being unsure of the dirty talk before you even write one word of the fic sets you up badly, tbh. You don't get to just experience the natural flow of the story, because you're already worried about this one aspect that, for all you know, could write itself when you get to that point. I would say, maybe try to get back in touch with what you loved about the idea and concentrate on that. The dirty talk will either be a natural outpouring of your already churning enthusiasm for the story or it'll turn out not to *need* dirty talk or just a smidgeon of it or other multitudes of outcomes.

At first I loved the idea for this post -- yes, let's all talk about what we like in dirty talk! \o/ But now I'm sort of wondering if it might lead you to look outside yourself, like... "Okay, I'm going to write this thing; what do other people like in that regard?" Rather than, "What do I want to write? What sorts of dirty talk do *I* enjoy? What would *my* character say here?"

I honestly think that if you write what *you* love, it'll be great. If you let the fic tell you what it needs, it'll feel organic and fresh, as opposed to figuring out beforehand what's good and what's not, because that's not only different for each one of us; it's probably different for you on different days and with different set-ups.

So, I guess, in a nutshell, I'd say focus on what you're already excited about in the story and let the rest just happen as it will. Maybe you just *can't* see the dirty talk from where you're at, and it'll take starting the fic to find it.

<3

[birdsofshore]

The dirty talk will either be a natural outpouring of your already churning enthusiasm for the story or it'll turn out not to *need* dirty talk or just a smidgeon of it or other multitudes of outcomes.

Yes, I agree! This is great advice. I think I just feel a bit inhibited about dirty talk and having a couple of pointers to focus on if I feel 'stuck' or lacking in confidence, will really help. For instance, a lot of people have said that it's the other person's reaction that does it for them. If I'm worried that my lines are not effective enough, I can add in more reaction from the listener, and that could really help.

It also came up that silly, awkward dirty talk could even be OK. That was definitely helpful! Do you remember that line, "I am, I'm going to come all over your jeans"? LOL! We both really liked that one, if I remember. But it was actually sort of ridiculous. So that also frees me up, to remember that a line can be silly or dorky and still be sort of hot.

I was never planning to do it by numbers, don't worry. I just need a few nudges in the right direction, and a little sharpen of the things I *do* have in my toolbox. I've enjoyed everyone's ideas very much!

[nicevenn.livejournal.com]

I tend to prefer dirty talk that gives instruction (Yeah, suck it) or makes a threat/promise (I'm gonna fuck you so hard you'll feel me for days). The only time I like dirty talk that's meant to humiliate is in non-con, in which case it can be really hot.

Also, and especially in the case of shaming and dub/non-con, I think it's more about what happens between the lines of dialogue, like sensory details, than what is actually being said. So, for example, we'd be told that Harry is painfully aware of how his naked thighs are spread for Draco's pleasure, and he can't hide how aroused he is. Draco would then brush Harry's cock with the back of his gloved fingers and lean in, touching his lips to his ear, and whisper, "Slut."

[birdsofshore]

*squirm* I like your example very much :) In fact, I think I need some MORE of your example, just to be really sure I've understood what you meant ;-))

Threats and promises are the best! That's a really good thing to remember.

[isinuyasha.livejournal.com]

Hm good questions...what I don't really like are these forced kinda dirty talks like "Oh yeah give it to me"...that sounds really awkward and porn-talk like :D Or these mono- or dialogues like "Do you like that? Yeah? Can you feel it?" especially if they're going on for a long time and/or if they're really one-sided because all I can think about then is "when will you shut up?"
I guess when the characters say these things in the heat of the moment, like they can't help it, that's what I like...I also don't really like pet names during sex, I know that probably doesn't count but sometimes I read things like "Oooh that's it baby" and that kills the moment kinda :D

[birdsofshore]

A lot of people have said what makes it hot is when the person just can't help themself. That's a really interesting observation and will be a useful thing to remember when writing, I think.

[arenee1999]

For me, it really depends on the story and the dynamics of the characters within the story. I LOVE dirty talk when the sex is hot and heavy, but if it's sweet and tender dirty talk just seems out of place.

Some characters just seem like the type that would like it. I like Draco having a filthy mouth in any pairing. In Hermione/anyone, I like Hermione's partner having a dirty mouth.

I don't really care for degradation talk except when it's used between loving partners because one or both of them are turned on by it. It that instance I love it. :)

[birdsofshore]

I agree, Draco with a dirty mouth is THE BUSINESS.

I said I didn't like degradation talk, but I keep thinking of examples where I *do* like it. I think it's just a bit hit and miss for me. I like picking it apart and working out what works where...

[celestlyn.livejournal.com]

"I am sort of a less is more person. A few well-placed, well-delivered lines--with the appropriate reaction from the other person, as others have said--works so much better for me than endless dialogue."

YES! This! Less is more for me, as well. I don't mind some, of course. Even when I have sex, I find a lot of dirty talk to be distracting. I want to say, "Shut up and stop talking about it! Just DO it!" That said, I adore the sort of incoherent babbling that comes with being so damned turned on that you can't think straight, and if you don't come right the fuck now you're going to die! I also love it when one is pretty restrained and gets pushed to the edge and just loses it completely.

For example, I picture Harry as being pretty unrestrained and uninhibited. Being a Gryffindor, he's never been restrained and I can't imagine him being inhibited in bed, either. I see Draco as pretty controlled and restrained. I find it amazingly sexy when Harry can get Draco to completely lose it, inspite of trying his best to not embarrass himself. That's where the incoherent babbling would be awesome! A well-placed "FUCK!" here and there, or a few other expletives are hot as hell.


"I like humiliation and degradation as a kink so I'm very happy to see that sort of dirty talk in a fic, but it also depends on the characters and the circumstances. I also love cross-dressing and playing with fetishes, so talk about male characters looking pretty somehow really hits my kink buttons, whereas I know that's a real back-button for others."

That would get a back-button from me. It is so far from sexy to me that it would completely leave me cold. Humiliation and degradation are not my thing at all and the furthest thing from sexy. Slut-shaming and that stuff does nothing for me. I really hate power-play in most situations. That said, there are times when I might find it a turn on and I can't even explain when or how that happens. Some situations call for a bit of power-play or near dub-con. I have to be in the right mood for that, for sure.

"I mean, if spanking is a kink for you, then "I'm going to smack that ass so hard" could be effective dirty talk, but if it's not, then it'll leave you cold."

Holy crap! Then there's that! It never fails to turn me on, big time! Not the whipping and beating bloody thing, but just a damned sexy spanking. GUH! That might call for some dirty talk!

I guess, like others have said, it's going to vary greatly from person to person. It would be impossible to write a fic that would hit the right note for everyone. I do know that when someone tries to force elements of a sex scene it can lose it's intended purpose. When it becomes forced it can feel fake and then it will have all the sexiness of a cardboard box. The same applies to dirty talk. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

[birdsofshore]

I find it amazingly sexy when Harry can get Draco to completely lose it, inspite of trying his best to not embarrass himself.

Yes, this seems to be a popular trope! I think that's part of what inhibits me when I am trying to write dirty talk. The feeling of embarrassment for the characters, I have to force myself to get over that vulnerable feeling!

[nearlyconscious.livejournal.com]

Dirty talk, to me, is all about writing what turns you on. I'm not that much into name-calling either (although well-contextualised, if it's clearly a game and that the person being insulted is really into it, I like it).
I love dirty talk, it's probably my n°1 kink, and it's actually what I find easiest to write? Descriptions of how two characters fuck are much harder for me than a dialogue between characters talking about how much they're aroused. What is nice about it is that you can be very spontaneous. I think it also greatly depends on the character. For instance, I think Harry would mostly compliment and swear ("fuck, this is amazing"). I imagine Severus to be very much in control of his tone, and carefully choose his words. I think Pansy would be unapologetically filthy and revel in shocking slightly her partners by staying stuff such as "I want you to sit on my face, *now*", out of the blue, looking them dead in the eye. People can be shy about dirty talk and I think that's very endearing; portraying the way a character gradually gets confident about it and eventually trust their partner enough to let loose and voice their thoughts and fantasies is really cool, too!
I can't wait to read what you're writing :)

[birdsofshore]

I love your head canons! Especially Harry complimenting and swearing, LOL!

I am still working up the nerve to begin, but thank you for your encouragement, all of these thoughts and suggestions are so helpful.

[icmezzo.livejournal.com]

Ah, yes. Dirty talk. I struggle with it as well, and, upon attempting, usually end up making fun of it instead (see Very Important Meeting). I would say, though, that if I wanted to learn how to do it effectively, I might (re)read a few stories with that particular aspect in mind. I'd likely start with "Sex, Lies, and Veritaserum" and "IDK, my BFF Hermione." I'm partial to her fic, of course, but I can't imagine either of those would serve you wrong...

[birdsofshore]

You're the second person to rec IDK my BFF, and it doesn't surprise me at all! I like the subversion of humorous dirty talk in your fic <3

[torino10154]

Nnnggh! Worked for me....

[lijahlover.livejournal.com]

I have such a thing for dirty talk. I love it when pureblooded Draco lets loose in the bedroom and says what he wants to do or be done to him. Something about Draco saying fuck during sex makes me *swoon*

I'm not crazy about humiliation though.

If the two characters are both into dirty talk, it usually makes me pant.

Like others have said if it is done right it can make the sex scene 10 thousand times more sexy.

If you like toppy Draco and blushing Harry I hope you have read Blush and it's sequel Preparation?

[birdsofshore]

I don't think I have read those fics! I obviously have some reading to do...

[http://users.livejournal.com/_hannelore/]

I think this is a great discussion because it shows what a wonderful spectrum of dirty talk there is! Maybe this post needs a part II where everyone posts links to their favorite dirty talk fic and that can be the primer. ;)

Myself personally, the turn-on is how aroused both (or more) parties are and how words end up being so sexually charged. I love dirty talk in partially clothed/completely clothed situations, situations where sex isn't possible/allowed, etc. Those kinds of things really push my buttons when it comes to dirty talk.

[birdsofshore]

Yes, a few people posted examples and I was not surprised to see lettered and femme's writing featured.

I think the situations you describe where words become charged have great potential for dirty talk being incendiary!

[emhemm.livejournal.com]

Arrggghhh! I'm sooo behind on everything! including glompfest which I swore to myself I'd keep up with, and sadly, I also haven't read your wonderful aural fics (I'm really looking forward to them!).

I just wanted to say that I really like these posts of yours and the discussion they generate, and am putting this one my memorable posts so I can come back to it if I ever decide to write dirty talk :D that might be never, but at least I have this for some guidance.

[birdsofshore]

This was a great discussion! It's helped me a lot.

Don't worry about getting 'behind'. Fandom is meant to be fun, and it'll all still be here if and when you get some spare time.