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birdsofshore) wrote2018-03-06 07:19 pm
Questions about estimating fic lengths
Hello! I don't know if people still have discussions on here, but I can't find any other platform where I can follow the conversation, sooo... Any advice gratefully received.♥
I've signed up for the H/D Bang, and having finally got started with it, I'm now having a crisis that the fic I've planned is not going to reach 50k.
The length my fics turn out is always a surprise to me. This year's erised ended up being 65k, and I had NO IDEA that was going to happen. I still don't really know how it did. Foolishly, I let this give me confidence to sign up for the Bang. After all, if I could write a 65k fic by mistake, how hard could it be to write 50k on purpose? /o\
So, I got a rough plan together and it's around 30 scenes long. No problem, I thought. My 65k erised only had 25 scenes! This was going to be easy!
Then I wrote the first scene and it's only 800 words long. FUUUUCK. What's gone wrong? No way is this going to be 50k! I looked back at some other fics. My next longest fic has 42 scenes. But it's only 41k! OMG!
I looked at my other mid length fics.
28k = 18 scenes
28k = 19 scenes
22k = 14 scenes
32k = 19 scenes
28k = 16 scenes
34k = 18 scenes
This is reassuring. But what about the rogue '42 scene / 41 k' fic? How can I be sure this one isn't going to go fucked up like that one?
I have so many questions. How do you estimate the length of a fic? Are you anywhere near being right when you do so? I've never even TRIED before, so I have no freaking idea.
Thank you if you can help! ♥ And I hope you are all well?
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The first thing I'd suggest is just taking a deep breath and ignoring the math for a moment. I think there's always an element of wonder and worry. When I started RHR, I was super nervous that I'd get to 35k and then just have nothing more to say and no way to add in enough to cover the word count. And it ended up 73k. I think I did the same as you this time, in that I wrote 52k and then 44 or 48 or something for Erised, and so I'm all confident like, 'Hey this happens easily by accident; let's take this pro!' LOL. But there's always an element of real uncertainty there.
The best advice I could give at this point is to not hold back when you're writing a scene. I think I tend to -- just by second nature and not even thinking about it -- self-edit as I write in order to keep the pacing good and exciting. But with 50k, you have room to describe what you want and not keep it super brief. I find myself trying not to describe too heavily or to let the characters talk too much, and then I'm like, 'Why am I trying to hold this back?' Because in reality, you can *always* take stuff out if it gets too long-winded. For that matter, though, you can add stuff in after-the-fact too. I did that a lot with Blood and Fire. I'd just read and reread and reread, and any good ideas I'd have on, like, the fifth or tenth read-through, I'd find ways to add them in.
I guess my only point is that, for me, it's a different mindset of allowing myself all the words I want to say in a 50k piece. I have to purposefully switch off the button in my brain that says, 'be efficient; go for brevity'.
I hope this helps! Fwiw, I think most stories that have a scene count as high as yours *will* end up over 50k. That other fic was probably a bit of an aberration. *shrugs*
♥
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I wrote 52k and then 44 or 48 or something for Erised, and so I'm all confident like, 'Hey this happens easily by accident; let's take this pro!'
HAHA exactly!
I love your advice about not holding back during a scene, but you know, I don't think I've ever been one for effiency and brevity. I think I generally let myself blather on as much as I like... Well, unless I'm bored, or about to hear the sound of another deadline whooshing past me.
And your last paragraph has made me panic in case my fic goes SUPER LONG. Oh god! Why do we do this to ourselves? ;-)
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LMAO, damned if we do, damned if we don't. ;) Wouldn't it be nice if at the outset, Draco just looked up from whatever you have him doing in a scene, looked you straight in the eye, said, "Potter and I have decided this is going to be 56k. There. Are you happy?", rolled his eyes, and then just went back to whatever you had him doing? :P
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The best advice I can give, is as LQTT says, ignore the word count, don't worry about the math, just write and enjoy the writing and do the story that's in your end as is for the first draft.
Editing and subsequent is when you can take stock and look at the length and add or prune scenes to fit if necessary.
If you come up short it's not the end of the world.
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I think ignoring the word count and writing the story is good advice. I'm just worried I might end up several k short, and there's no leeway with the bang, it's either 50k or it isn't. I could always put it on ao3 on its own, of course, but I'd feel it was a failure, and I've got a lovely artist who's agreed to work with me, which I'm very excited about. So I do hope to be able to participate.
Thanks for your thoughts and reassurance. I know you're right, but it won't necessarily stop me angsting about it!
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Still I do advise not stressing as of course we do this for the fun! :)
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All for the fun, of course ;-)
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Actually, I just did the math for my current fic and I have 72 scenes which would give me about 144k for est wordcount at 2k a scene, and that's pretty close to what my current progress is indicating. :)
Of course, everybody is different, but in my experience, though you'll have a few scenes that are less than 1k, you're likely to have a lot more than end up being longer, so with 30 scenes, I wouldn't be too worried about it!
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I was thinking the same - about varying length. I mean, I've written sex acts that were about 5k long, so I surely will have some longer scenes in there mixed in with the short ones? But I find unknown variables hard to deal with. I was thinking, if half the scenes are 1k, and half the scenes are 2k... IT'S STILL NOT ENOUGH. And I rounded up a bit, when I was counting scenes. Some are a bit handwavey. You know, the loosely draped sections. :D
Thank you so much for your thoughts. I will try to stop fretting.
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If half are 1k though, and half are 2k, that still gets you to 45k. Worst case scenario, you just squeeze in one of those 5k sex scenes you're so good at and you're good to go! ;)
For me at least, I almost always have an extra scene or two that crop up as I write as I realize certain things aren't quite as developed as I would like. Loose drapery can be quite long, after all. ;)
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I can't just stick in a gratuitous sex scene to add another 5k to the fic, grace! *shocked* Do you think I'm some kind of SMUT SLUT? :DD
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I'm afraid I won't be much help, fic lengths are still by and large a surprise to me too. For a while I was sort of good at predicting length by going with my initial gut feel for how long it'd be and then adding 50% to that. But lately I've been incredibly, laughably wrong. I'm working on a long fic right now too, and my first chapter is only about half the length I think it should be. ::flail::
If you're only on your first scene, though, I don't think you should be worrying quite yet. For me at least, my first scenes tend to be shorter, and then once I've settled into a story enough that the characters take up a mind of their own, the scenes start getting longer. So maybe give it a couple more scenes to see if it's trending in that direction? Failing that, add more smut?? I don't know, I'm sorry I'm not more help! But yeah, I think just keep writing and see if you can get a better idea of how it's going before you really start to panic <3
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I agree, I think first scenes often are. I like to try to be a bit punchy and grab the attention, I think, and then as the dynamic starts to develop, you start to linger on everything a bit more and as you say, the characters start having their own ideas and doing all sorts of stuff. You're right. *breathes into paper bag* I shall try to write some more and see how it's going.
Thank you! I really appreciate the advice!
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Estimating fic length is a mystery to me -- well not so much a mystery; I usually come up (randomly?) with a number and then I add 10-20k more. While drafting my first fic TMODM, I assumed it'd be 21k (ended up 37k) and this happened again and again, so when I estimated my Erised to be ~28k, I knew it'd turn out longer (~40k).
The interesting thing is I have no idea how I come up with these first numbers. I'm a pantser, I don't do outlines in any sort of way, so I just usually have a "feeling". I often tend to do an estimate after having the written the first chapter or so, but my first chapters/scenes tend to be much shorter than the rest of the fic, which might be why I underestimate. When I get right into the story, a scene of "here's where they do X" becomes a lot more than them doing X, because there's developing emotions and furtive glances and describing how gorgeous Draco looks.
Also as I write, more issues arise that need to be dealt with. Something someone said in the last scene might need to be touched upon later, for example, which would lead to some more dialogue or action.
I'll echo what the others said and advise you to trust the story and trust yourself, and you know -- if in doubt, add more smut. :)))
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I'm usually a pantser, too, but I felt it was a bridge too far to try to write a 50k fic with no outline. I'm pretty bad at plotting, and hope to improve, so I thought planning was the best way to go.
a scene of "here's where they do X" becomes a lot more than them doing X, because there's developing emotions and furtive glances and describing how gorgeous Draco looks.
Oh, you're so right! LOL! I wonder how many words I've devoted to THAT particular subject?
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Also, remember most folks under-write in their first draft. Your words will expand in the editing. And the more your characters find their footing, the longer things will get. You'll be okay. Write it, have someone you trust read it, and if it's not quite 50k, you can find a way to fill it out. It'll work. There's almost always something that could use some more details after the fact.
Just write, hon. It's going to be brilliant!!! *HUGS*
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I'm not convinced I under-write... I often get told to cut quite a bit at the beta stage. I think I'm a waffler!
Thanks so much for your advice and encouragement.
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I'll just get on with it and hope all is well. Then I can come and moan at you all that the fic is too long and I can't get it finished. :D
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It's really hard to know the story length beforehand. Once I tried to participate in a minibang because I was sure I couldn't make the big bang word count. It was supposed to be a short pwp but instead of the 10k words, the end result was almost twice that. But I tend to have only vague outlines and just wing it while writing so no wonder. ;)